First of all, let me state that this is not intended to be a replacement for ears. /
Time Alignment via physical distance measurement:
Stage Shift:
Cliffs:
Website you can use to calculate time delay for a 2-way or 3-way front stage + sub, based off physical distance measurements.
Site also tries to help you shift stage and not lose focus.
Access it from your phone to quickly get your setup roughed in.
The site can be found here:
http://tracerite.com/calc.html
- Erin (and Robert)
Edit:
Update 01/17/14:
The site has been updated to include an option to select 2-way or 3-way, making it a bit more intuitive. In addition, there has been an EXPERIMENTAL version of the time delay calculations I'll simply call the "crossover method".
Crossover Method information:
To use this method:
You'll then be provided the values for time alignment in (ms).
If you don't want to bother with the crossover method, skip steps 3 & 4.
A word of advice: the sub delay is likely going to be much longer than anyone can account for with standard DSP. So, one method is to use the half-wave of the subwoofer value (provided in the results) and flip the polarity of the sub. The 1/4 wave value doesn't really bear much fruit, but you can give it a shot if you'd like... that's why it's there.
http://tracerite.com/calc.html
Again, don't go having a cow over this crossover method. We are not trying to change the world. Just presenting something different. If you don't like it, stick with the standard method. But, I do encourage you to give it a shot. You may be surprised.
- Erin
Time Alignment via physical distance measurement:
Over the years I've found that the quickest way to get roughed in for time alignment is to simply measure the physical distance from your listening position to each speaker and apply the "delay math" to provide you with the amount of time delay you should add for each speaker. This is found in Alpine's manuals as well as some other places. It's not necessarily something that you set and forget, but man, it cuts out 90% of the work quickly.
We've been floating various Excel sheets on this site over the years. I know I've shared the basic t/a calc sheet I made a few years back. I've thought a few times it would be nice to have an app or a site you could visit that you could simply punch the numbers in and get the delay values spit out rather than opening up an excel sheet on a computer you don't have. Especially now that people can use their phones to visit the web for this kind of thing.
With that in mind, I did the basic time alignment sheet in excel. Then I kicked it over to Robert (pockets5) to get it coded up for a site he hosts. This was built with the mobile platform in mind, as opposed to building an app for one O/S.
It's simple to use... pretty much intuitive. When you go to that site, "clear all values", then simply type in your phsyical driver distances from your seat and click "Calculate". Below, the numbers for delay in milliseconds (ms) you need will be spit out.
Note: To keep from re-inventing the wheel, the site was built with a 3-way front stage in mind. If you have a 2-way front stage simply leave the Midbass fields blank.
We've been floating various Excel sheets on this site over the years. I know I've shared the basic t/a calc sheet I made a few years back. I've thought a few times it would be nice to have an app or a site you could visit that you could simply punch the numbers in and get the delay values spit out rather than opening up an excel sheet on a computer you don't have. Especially now that people can use their phones to visit the web for this kind of thing.
With that in mind, I did the basic time alignment sheet in excel. Then I kicked it over to Robert (pockets5) to get it coded up for a site he hosts. This was built with the mobile platform in mind, as opposed to building an app for one O/S.
It's simple to use... pretty much intuitive. When you go to that site, "clear all values", then simply type in your phsyical driver distances from your seat and click "Calculate". Below, the numbers for delay in milliseconds (ms) you need will be spit out.
Note: To keep from re-inventing the wheel, the site was built with a 3-way front stage in mind. If you have a 2-way front stage simply leave the Midbass fields blank.
Stage Shift:
Here's the cool part. Often when I tune, I feel like I've gotten everything pretty well focused. But sometimes I want to move the stage over to one side or the other a bit. What stinks is while fiddling with your delay and your levels, you may lose the focus you had.
So.... The bottom section of the site is an *attempt* to help remedy that. Simply type in how much you want to shift the stage and in what direction (right-hand side drivers, you were thought of when I did this). Once you select the direction, the amount of delay and level you need to alter for each SIDE is provided.
This uses the following logic: a) -6dB per distance doubled and b) midrange delta from your entered speaker distances are used to calculate the amount of attenuation.
So.... The bottom section of the site is an *attempt* to help remedy that. Simply type in how much you want to shift the stage and in what direction (right-hand side drivers, you were thought of when I did this). Once you select the direction, the amount of delay and level you need to alter for each SIDE is provided.
This uses the following logic: a) -6dB per distance doubled and b) midrange delta from your entered speaker distances are used to calculate the amount of attenuation.
Cliffs:
Website you can use to calculate time delay for a 2-way or 3-way front stage + sub, based off physical distance measurements.
Site also tries to help you shift stage and not lose focus.
Access it from your phone to quickly get your setup roughed in.
The site can be found here:
http://tracerite.com/calc.html
- Erin (and Robert)
Edit:
Update 01/17/14:
The site has been updated to include an option to select 2-way or 3-way, making it a bit more intuitive. In addition, there has been an EXPERIMENTAL version of the time delay calculations I'll simply call the "crossover method".
Crossover Method information:
As it is, you can still enter your distances and get your 'standard' T/A values. However, with the new update, you have the option of entering in some crossover values and letting the sheet provide you with a new set of delay values that accounts for the low frequency wavelength. The notion being that in the area where our hearing is more sensitive to time, and that the wavelength of low frequencies is so long, the site will now account for adding additional delay based on your crossover frequency.
This method is essentially a means of adjusting the phase angle at the crossover, so the speakers are as in-phase as you can get them with a tape measure. This doesn't seem to have any benefit for speakers crossed high; presumably due to the ILD/ITD relationship. So, I've left out the tweeter crossover... there's just no point. No, it doesn't account for slope (yet; though, I'm not sure I'll bother). It won't fix your response if your polarity on a driver is wrong and you may want to play with your slopes a bit to see if you can get better blending.
I cannot stress enough that this "crossover method" is really more for experimenting with your system than anything. If it doesn't work, so be it. If it does, awesome. If it kind of does, then you can explore why.
That said, here's my personal findings and feedback on this method:
In my car, I have a Helix DSP that has the ability to adjust phase in 12.5 degree increments, I believe. Right now, my phase angle is at 275 degrees, (if I recall correctly) which is about 11ms at 70hz. When I use the site's crossover method to calculate time delay, the half-wave value I get is 10.125ms. That's remarkably close to what I have with my phase of 275 degrees.
I've gotten feedback from friends who have tried this and it's been pretty positive thus far. Granted, it's fairly subjective, and even to me doesn't make an entire world of sense, but it seems to actually work and work well. Of course, every install is different, so YMMV.
This method is essentially a means of adjusting the phase angle at the crossover, so the speakers are as in-phase as you can get them with a tape measure. This doesn't seem to have any benefit for speakers crossed high; presumably due to the ILD/ITD relationship. So, I've left out the tweeter crossover... there's just no point. No, it doesn't account for slope (yet; though, I'm not sure I'll bother). It won't fix your response if your polarity on a driver is wrong and you may want to play with your slopes a bit to see if you can get better blending.
I cannot stress enough that this "crossover method" is really more for experimenting with your system than anything. If it doesn't work, so be it. If it does, awesome. If it kind of does, then you can explore why.
That said, here's my personal findings and feedback on this method:
In my car, I have a Helix DSP that has the ability to adjust phase in 12.5 degree increments, I believe. Right now, my phase angle is at 275 degrees, (if I recall correctly) which is about 11ms at 70hz. When I use the site's crossover method to calculate time delay, the half-wave value I get is 10.125ms. That's remarkably close to what I have with my phase of 275 degrees.
I've gotten feedback from friends who have tried this and it's been pretty positive thus far. Granted, it's fairly subjective, and even to me doesn't make an entire world of sense, but it seems to actually work and work well. Of course, every install is different, so YMMV.
To use this method:
- Select 2-way or 3-way first.
- Under the "measurements" tab, enter your speaker distances from your head to approximately the motor of the driver.
- Then select the "crossover" tab.
- Enter the appropriate crossover values.
- Click "calculate".
You'll then be provided the values for time alignment in (ms).
If you don't want to bother with the crossover method, skip steps 3 & 4.
A word of advice: the sub delay is likely going to be much longer than anyone can account for with standard DSP. So, one method is to use the half-wave of the subwoofer value (provided in the results) and flip the polarity of the sub. The 1/4 wave value doesn't really bear much fruit, but you can give it a shot if you'd like... that's why it's there.
http://tracerite.com/calc.html
Again, don't go having a cow over this crossover method. We are not trying to change the world. Just presenting something different. If you don't like it, stick with the standard method. But, I do encourage you to give it a shot. You may be surprised.
- Erin
